Welcome to another episode of choices, a university studies podcast. Today we have with us three UD alum's. We have make Hutchins, Lucas Emory, and John cogen. I'm going to go ahead and allow each of them to introduce themselves and tell us what they do at UD. Oh, they also work at UD. Should mention that too. Who would like to go first? Meg? Sure. I'm Meg Hutchins. I am the Program Coordinator for the Museum Studies Program and the internship coordinator for the History Department. And I've been at the university in this position for I think four years now. Hi, my name's Lucas Emery. My pronouns are he him. And I am a digital graphic designer for the UT College of Arts and Sciences Dean's office. And this month will be my four year anniversary as well. I am John Logan, my answer. And I am an admissions counselor here at UT. I'm also a recent grad. I graduated in 2018. And this is month 10 of me in this position. Before this, I was at Trinity University for a year and a half working in their admissions. Could you describe a little bit more about what you do? So yeah. So what I do in the museum studies program is kind of a mix of things. Our program is not a full program. It's full program. It's a full lake major or are switched for a degree seeking program. So we have graduate, undergraduate students that are seeking a minor and museum studies or a graduate certificate in museum studies. And so they hold a major or are seeking a degree, masters or a PhD and another program. So they're technically here through another program and we're sort of an add on, if you will, even though that makes it sound a little less intense than it is. And so my job is to make sure everybody's on track. So I I track student's ID, student advisement. My main focuses undergraduates. But yes, so I tend to focus on the miners. So I do a lot of the advisement for undergraduate students that are going through the minor. And but I do do I do work with the graduate students as well. And I also place students in internships. So kinda defeating interject that I do basically a bunch of other stuff, but those are the main things. Look the same question. Could you please elaborate on what it is you do at the university? Yeah. So the university is broken into seven or eight colleges. One of them being a grad college and the rest of them being specific to certain portfolios of study. So for the dean's office or the College of Arts and Sciences, I am a graphic designer for all the academic programs that are in the social sciences, natural sciences, excluding engineering and humanities. It's so I'll help create internal collateral such as course promotions and sort of faculty news stories for you daily and graphics for social media. But also a lot of largely external pieces such as brochures that advertise specific programs or the college as a whole and promote the university to prospective high school students as well. All right. Thank you. And John, almost a year and admission. Could you describe your role? Short? So I do a couple of different things. So we take the pamphlets that Lucas makes for Cass and distribute them to the students, The prospective students in high schools as part of our recruitment cycle. So I interact with students in a bunch of different counties in New Jersey and Pennsylvania and try to get them interested in the school. I then read their applications once they submit them and help make recommendations towards admissions decisions on whether or not they show up at the university. And then also make recommendations on if the major that they applied to is the right fit for them or if we should guide them in a different direction based on academic success in certain programs within their high school career. I also am assisting with our customer relations management system or CRM system. And that's all about being able to market to students. So send the e-mails and text messages and keep track of data in a more streamline setting. It's a lot of work. Our manager literally left two weeks ago, so I'm taking over a lot of that on her. So it's been a busy couple of weeks, but it's pretty cool and it's definitely a career that I did not think I was going to go into after I graduated from college, but it's it's been fun. So that brings me to my next question. Could you talk a little bit more about your career journey and how you got here. We're going to have each of you talk about that. And you can start wherever you like. You can start from. College or back in high school or elementary school, wherever you think at its most significant. And let's start with John this time. Yeah, So I did not end up in the field that I studied. I actually started at UT in the university studies program. I spent about a year and a half and that program under the spent Mary's guidance and played with a lot of different fields of interest and really didn't have any idea in high school, I was thinking maybe Marine Biology at that I didn't do so hot biology and then I thought maybe I'll be a history teacher, but I realized I really don't love to write a lot. And so it was a whole pathway of just like figuring out I wanted to do. And by the time I got to my junior or senior year of high school, I was like, I don't know. So I'm just going to look for undeclared programs. Came to UT, did university studies for a year and a half and discovered geography, which was not ever on my radar in high school. I don't even know if I took a geography course in high school. Which hurts my soul now that I am a geography major, because I think that should be something that exists in every curriculum. But I kinda just like to, I joke with some of my friends that it's like a major for people who never ever want to have a major, they just want to be undeclared for the rest of their life because it covers so many topics of interests. I went into political science fields. I wanted to health science fields, I wanted to physical science fields and all sorts of different stuff within the geography major. And then during my time IED, I was also in the student center programming advisory board, better known as Skip. Have I worked at IU dairy and I worked with them the sooner students centers as a whole and really realized that I light the college environment and wanted to remain working in the college environment. And so when I got to the end of my senior year, I was really looking at what are the jobs that they can go into without a master's degree or a PhD that are on a college campus. I'm an admissions cancer popped up as one of the top options and it's, it's a cool it's a cool job to be in because it's not anything that can really that's a major in college. And so you just kind of discovery it one day and realize that if you'd like talking with people and helping people figure out their passions and interests and guiding them in a certain direction. It's, it's a pretty cool field to be in. Great. Thank you. That's awesome. And I like that you found what you wanted to do outside of the classroom. And that really highlights it's so important to like get involved in other things. Oh, yeah. It was one of those things where it was like, I could not have figured out what I wanted to do if I didn't do things outside of the classroom because it was, I loved my major and I love to the topics that I learned, but it was something that was more of a interest than a career passion of mine. He would like to go next. Yeah, let's say I I'm happy to go next because similar to John. So I should say that I didn't even mention this. I also went to the University of Delaware as an undergrad through the visual communications program, which is in the art and design field. But she kept geared more towards advertising and marketing. So communicating visually. And it's not something I even knew I wanted to do until my senior year of high school. And when I took my first art class. So I got into this major without having even taken any art classes besides Intro to Art in high school. And that teacher was the one who told me about the great visual communications program at UT. So me being completely undecided senior high school, soccer word for it and applied cut into the university had to submit a portfolio for the department itself too. So they know that you're not just someone applying for visual nature, don't have a visual NAC. Thankfully, I had a little bit of a visual NAC. So did my program as an undergrad here at one of the great parts of it was a study abroad opportunity. So this summer before my senior year of college, the visual communications program at UGA studies abroad in London. And it was a bit unconventional in that it wasn't a sort of partnership with any sort of a broad university or a traditional classroom setting or specific program. Instead, we spent five weeks visiting advertising agencies all over lunch, Jim, I will have lost count of how many, but it was at least two per week, five weeks. And sprinkled in there where guest communicators from London. So illustrators, animators, any sort of freelance advertisers. It was just a fantastic study abroad. But the thing he told me was that I do not want to do advertising. I did not like the culture of the workspace that was talked about so much. It was very long days having to come up with new ideas just every hour on the hour. And it wasn't a career path that I wanted for myself. So that senior year of college was when I found out I wanted to be just more of a designer rather than a sort of marketer or advertising mind. And so after graduation is when I started applying some more in-house design jobs. And it's so funny because all of the faculty, I don't want to insult anyone at University of Delaware, but a lot of the faculty, you talk about visual communications as an ad agency job. And you do internships with advertising agencies? I did one for an advertising agency in Philadelphia. And it wasn't until after I applied to in-house design jobs and got one. And realize how common it was for visual communicators to become in-house designers. And how there's a demand for a designer and just about every company to exist. And the faculty of course come from that world too. It just wasn't something that they talked about too much. So that's why it took me about seven months to get my first job was because I just had an advertising portfolio. I didn't really work on clean design work. I worked on conceptual work. So seven months after graduation, I finally got an in-house design job for this small toy company in Wilmington. I just took photos of all of their products. I design social media posts for all the products and ran the websites, create an email. And I also had to pack orders to as part of it. So it was a very small company, all hands on deck. But I did get to do a lot of in-house design. And then through, I don't know, good timing or just being at the right place at the right time. I found an opening back at the University of Delaware three months after I started at that other job. And it was offering benefits, will steal a job was not offering. And it was a sort of prestigious brand and a recognizable institution. And I was an Alma mater, so I knew I liked the culture, at least from a student's side, applied. And luckily three days later got the offer. And so I've been here. He said homes for your sins them. Well, I also want to say it's you, Sylvia, you mentioned in another episode of this how people don't think about higher ed as a career path and I absolutely did not either. You know, if if you weren't my Alma mater, I probably wouldn't have been looking at here are four jobs. But like I said, every institution in America and the world needs a designer. And this round was just never talked about in my education. So now that I'm in it, I know, you know, you build a network of other creatives and communicators in other universities. And it's a huge network to get into, if anyone is. I like that the three of you all work at the university and all have very different roles. And I think it just highlights that in each field or industry or some like that, there are so many different types of jobs within it. Usually my example is like when somebody wants to work for the FBI, I'm like, Well, what do you want to do for the FBI? Everybody assumes like special agent, but I'm like they also hire graphic designers. So any, we laugh about that all the time. Now, these brilliant researchers and the advisors and people who are business administrators. But then they'll send us a flyer they designed. And it's like this is clearly not their area of expertise, but in their defense. If I were to try to get an undergraduate signed up for a group of classes or advise them on their academic future, I probably drive them into the ground. So everyone is brilliant in their own realm, contributes to the sentence. And Meg, hair care and tell us about your career journey. Yeah, so mine is fairly back. Her journey is really kind of eluded. And I'm going to try and take big steps so that we're not here for ages and ages and ages. Thanks. Career journey took a little bit longer than we anticipated, so we're going to post that separately. I encourage you to check it out because it is very interesting and includes a lot of great information, especially if you are interested in museum studies or history education, historical sites, things like that. And now back to the podcast. But I also missed working with students. And sorry, I was looking for that. Like, how do we go from there? And when the position that I that I currently hold opened up, it felt like everything that I had ever done in my life led to this moment in this position. It was in higher education. I had spent years in residence life and housing. I had spent years working with students and teaching students. So advising is something that I was used to doing. It was in museum studies. So it's in a field that I really liked and really knew a lot about from my experience. And then also the program that I help run. We do outreach so we go when we work with historic sites and museums to make them better. So as the best of both world, I got to help people go into the fields, but I also get to help the feel or be a better place. People to be sound. It's my round about way. That's, that's the quickest version of my journey. What gets measured on your journey? I know. I'm sorry. It's long. I know, but it is That's the quick guess. I missed about ten jobs in there. So you're welcome. Yeah. Resumes, jacks. It's a crazy, crazy world, but there's a line that I never thought was going to connect. So I needed to connect the points of that line or else it wouldn't make any sense. I know. I'm sorry. I told you it was a lot. Thank you for sharing all of that. I think you said a lot of valuable things within your career journey, like encouraging students to get internships. Absolutely. You never know in what ways those internships will be valuable. Internships I was going to add is definitely to one because it will either tell you where you want to be or where you absolutely do not want to be and both are good. So I've been jotting things down off on the sidewalk. People have been talking and I wanted to kind of follow up with Meg. So it's kind of interesting as you kinda talks about your excitement with leading people through these narratives when you are at historic sites and getting kids more so than any other population engaged. Because, I mean, I can even imagine probably the few times that my parents even suggested going to a historic site and I was not having any of it at that point. As a nerdy adult, I'm would be totally about it, but as a kid wouldn't, I wouldn't be about it. So it's exciting to hear that that was something that you really loved about it. And I kind of even remotely, It's sad that you guys pushed out of teaching for something that's overlaid books. I used to be a high school teacher as well. And that kind of excitement is just something that we don't get to have enough of an OS rooms. And so I hope that things will change with this new generation of educators that were training right now. Something about your story that really stuck out to me is the importance of networking and just knowing specific people I know it's often about knowing the right people at the right time. For you. It seems like it wasn't necessarily knowing people the right people at the right time. It was just happen to meeting people that would later kind of drop hints about things that would come into play. And I was hoping you could talk a little bit more about how kind of that importance of networking I benefitted you and also what your experience has been with networking because some people like me really hate it. So I was hoping you could talk about that a little bit more then hopefully open this up to also Lucas and John. Yeah. I felt for a long time like I didn't know how to network and like hated it and was like this is really stupid I think, because I had such a storied like interest and past everyone around me, like knew what they wanted to do. They had their one path and they happen to like no, like the head of the whatever met or something like that. My uncle like runs the whatever and I was like, how do you even find these people? And like, I was just like I felt like I was twisting in the wind forever. And luckily, I had some people that I could rely on in my program that we're like No, just like talk to this person. And it didn't work out at the moment, but it does come up later. And so networking is really hard. And especially when you're just starting out, you're like, this is awkward. I don't what am I do? I just like ask them for a job, what do I do it like what is networking? But even just having conversations with people, telling them what your interests are, listening, writing things down, collecting those business cards because you don't know when it is going to come back around to help you. And there's different ways, there's different, there's purposeful networking and they're sort of networking that's just sort of happens, but pay attention to those sorts of things. And yeah, I could go on and on about networking, but it's, it really is the most important thing. And even if you feel like you're bad at it, practicing it and being mindful about it, it's going to be the best thing for hearing Don Lucas. I was just going to add that networking can literally be adjusted terms of making a passing friendship or something. If you're at a conference or a lunch and or something and someone that you don't think you'll ever see again. But if you spend five minutes together and have a laugh or something, that, that is considered networking. And there's no hidden agenda. It's not like you talk to them because you want a job from that later on, we're trying to actually build a network. It's more about just changing your demeanor and having the confidence to meet people. Because, you know, growing up when I was hearing networking, I was thinking okay, people that I'm collaborating with and working with it, having a professional relationship with. But I think especially now with the upcoming generation and the generation that's getting into the workforce. Now, networking looks very informal, very casual, and is really is just about whether your friends are not forming a casual relationship with someone that enough that you have confidence a few months later or even a few years later to message them on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I just saw this opening. If your company, what can you tell me about it? Like your network doesn't have to be intimidating and professional. Yeah. I mean, I have a ton of people that I'm connected to on LinkedIn that are just like pick. I met you at a conference for two seconds, we had a conversation and then I like hunted you down on the admissions website for your school to find your name so that I could add just because who knows? Like, for example, I at Drexel, I recruited and the Midwest and fell in love with Chicago while recruiting there. So I'm like, I'm going to add all of these people from Chicago just like if down the road I decide I want to move, then I have these contacts. So yeah, it's definitely most people don't go to job fairs after you leave college. So makes it so it's a lot of just like getting out there. And so it's just like one of those things are, It's like especially my generation, like we're all on the Internet all the time. And it's just so easy to connect with people now, and it's as easy as just sending a request on LinkedIn. So yeah, just make those connections even if you don't have a conversation with them, like after you make that connection on LinkedIn, they just do. It can't, it doesn't hurt to have them in your field of like just partial connections from whenever John, you point out something that is so something that I do kind of miss about working in admissions. It is so easy to network and admissions because you often see a lot of the same people at a lot of the same events that you have to go to. And there's kind of this shared experience to put it diplomatically that you're all going through together. And so it's very easy to kind of establish those connections. I think sometimes for somebody like me, it's difficult to network because they think, Well, how often do I keep talking to them? Like do I have to maintain some kind of relationship with them or something? And so I think as I've gotten older, I've had to realize that most people are like, it's not that deep man lake. Remind me where I met you even if I don't remember you like Sure. Let's talk. And as far as conversations and I'm mostly just talking to people listening. But with networking, the best place to always start is to just talk about what you do. People love that crap. People love to talk about what they do, especially if it's somebody who is on a few levels higher than you. Chances are they're going to go on and on about a networking also doesn't have to be like, I want a job and that's why I'm not working. I think something that people miss is small projects and things like I've had people where it's like, Hey, I know that you were interested in this. Do you want to present at a conference together on this topic of something? Or right now we're doing a service project and we do a yearly service project and my program. And there was somebody that gave a really great presentation at a conference two years ago that I've been trying to loop into something. And all of a sudden this project we're working on was right in her wheelhouse. And so I gave her a call and was like, hey, do you want to be the consultant on this short-term three week project that we're doing. And now, you know, and she came and helped to now was like part of this thing. And so short-term projects can be really helpful. I'm reading this article. Would you be willing to add a couple notes, something like that. So now we're doesn't have to just be, I want a job, help me find a job. It can be about little things that help you build your portfolio and other ways. Yeah, so it's funny that we are on the subject of networking because I'm taking a class right now. And the subject this week is networking. And I key takeaway from that. And it's a good reminder to people, is so junior level people always find networking more intimidating than senior level people. Because junior-level people are like, well, I don't have anything to offer when I'm talking to the senior level person. But what people need to remember is that senior level people, they do get something out of the interaction as well. Because when you ask for somebody's advice, just said, good feeling of being asked and being able to share their wisdom. That is something that you are giving them. You're giving them the opportunity to feel good about themselves. And, and younger people do have information or insights that older, more experienced people don't have in terms of like. What is going on with their generation? By the way, John, we are all in the same generations have helped area. Before we move on from networking to Tyler said, shared experience as being a way to build a network. And that is so true for so many degree programs. If an alumni or like a recent graduate of my former graduate program, added me on LinkedIn and ask for an internship or something. I know what they are going through. And every intern I taken, I don't even care what their portfolio looks like at that point. I'll say yes because they're ready they're ready to learn. No. I'm sorry if HR is listening to this, but I don't screen the quality of the candidate because I just know what they're going through and I will say yes and use it as a learning opportunity for them. And so a great way to build a network is to look for people from your degree program, or from your town, or from your Alma mater in some way and build a relationship with them via LinkedIn or something. Because that shared experience is very unique and is an excuse to network with them. Yes, blue hands are always willing to help current blue hands. So it's a good place to start is alumni. And I'll also plug because I have a general idea that a starting recruitment season, our career services, is accessible to alum as well as current students. So you can be 20 years out of your degree IUD and still come back and contact career services to be put in contact with Alum are for guidance and support. And so yeah, I think that there's lots of different ways that you're able to kind of get all this to work for you. And I think that's also a great resource. I also want people to remember that everything is networking. Whenever I give presentations to classes and like look around you, your interactions with your fellow students. That's networking, talking to your professor that's networking. You sending me a nasty email. That's part of never being not good networking. But it is. I think that's true though, because I know that in grad school my cohort was like eight kids, eight students of varying levels. The field that I work in a small enough that I get people calling saying, Oh, do you know this person because they went through your program? And I do know them because there's not many and some of them have not gotten great reviews for me because we went through the program together and I know how hard they work or how hard they didn't work. And so That's important, not that you have to be like on your car that like, oh my god, you made a mistake and I all your classmates are going to judge you for the rest of your life kind of thing. But there is, or if you're working in a group project that's like the major part of the N2, like this whole culminating class. If you're slacking off and you're not helping at all, Like all your classmates are going to remember. And if you are ending up in the same field, like that's something to think about, like pull your weight, tension enough for now. It's better to have like a neutral. Oh yeah, we've worked on this project, whatever. Then them being like, Yeah, we had this huge project and they never helped and I hate them. And so now I'm going to sync them when I get called to ask staff or a reference for them. So yeah. Also work hard on your projects just for the sake of working hard in fear of somebody, but gives you a better view later. So, Lucas, you recently published a children's book. You tell us just a bit more about what that experience has been like and how your career in education kind of led you to that project and how it prepared you to I guess, execute said project. I've actually that is the result of my furthering education this past August. Any future listeners right now it's February 2021 has passed. I started my master's in communication design. And one of the classes was simply called personal exploration. You will hear a lot of stereotypical or at C. C class is coming through these programs by promised they have purpose. And that is what are the really like open ended artsy pharmacy classes I took at is just about reflecting on you as an individual and what you personally can contribute to your field. Because everybody's biases and experiences makes them a unique candidate for any field. And so one of the things that I experience and part of my identities, I am a twin. And it's not a shared experience that many people have, but it's also an experience that a lot of people are interested in. And so I decided to explore that through design. There's something I've never done before. And long story short, the book ended up being sort of a tribute to. Be a twin and basically saying that every twin is an individual, a hat. There are half of a whole, but they are still hole in and of themselves. And they're not sort of defined as the opposite or the identical personality of their twin. So my education helps me and actually getting that published, self-published, I should say, map to me and we'll sort of false pretenses that. Suddenly a side published New York Times bestselling author. I think my experience as a graphic designer really helped me and streamlining that process. So I already knew what softwares would be best for creating these illustrations. And I had to take an illustration classes in my undergrad. And that's something I continued through my freelancing as well. And then writing was not as hard as I thought it was. Because a visual communicators either go into copywriting or they handle copy, which I don't know how general term that is. That's just another term for text. Handle copy just daily. And they know how precise copy needs to be in advertising or marketing, or just publications. And so that writing come out of the illustration just came pretty naturally. And then when it came time to getting it produced, I already built a network with a local print studio that I had been working with for a few years. So I got a really generous deal on getting those actually printed. I already will have the training and what sort of papers I wanted it printed on what color, quality I needed. And so it just was a very simple process to submit the files for the Presidio. Tell them I wanted to feel like this when it's printed and look this way and shine here. And that got done. And thankfully it was a story that's pretty unique that a lot of people who either have twins or our its way and don't get to celebrate too often. So I had a very niche market. So you promoted to and yeah, it was really nice to just have a personal experience that I could create something out of and sort of connect with people who have that same personal experience as small of a group is that is kind of expanding upon the broader question about how your education credits here, G for jobs that or I guess projects or things you didn't work on. I know made you kind of touched upon that. I was hoping I could hear from John since going from a geography major to an admissions counselor in college, does not seem like the most kind of intuitive transition yet. So definitely not intuitive, definitely not something that was like one plus one equals two on this one. I part of it was just kind of like I'm a people person. And so my interest in charter, if he was much more on the human geography side. So basically there's two main diverting interests within geography, physical geography, we're looking at landforms and all that kinda stuff and how Earth in physics is, in physical space exists. And then you're looking at human geography, which is how humans interact with things. So there's political geography, there is social geography, there's cultural geography. And so the human geography side of me has this interest and interact with people and communicating with people. And so a lot of that had to do with my interesting going into admissions and stay in higher ed because it's that's a huge aspect of being an admissions counselor. It's just interacting with people. During our podcast conversation that I've had five or six emails come in from students who are asking about major isn't applying to the university and all that kind of stuff. And so it's a really cool experience where I'm helping shape basically the life of a student after they graduate high school. And yeah, and a lot of the experience comes from just like interacting with people and figuring out what I wanted to deal with that and not as much about the degree itself. To insert enough. Yeah, that's funny. I don't know if I've given this era of like either have to be correct answers to questions they asked. I apologize if it's come off that. I want to bring it back to Meg. So we and by we I mean, Sylvia and I and the other advisers will occasionally meet with students who will say that they had or have or had an interest in history, that, that was like one of their favorite subjects. Or that they really enjoy taking classes in it. But face a lot of resistance because I'm pretty sure every single student I've ever met with who was interested in history and I suggested it as a major, said, Why don't want to be a teacher? Or the other question is, well, what can you do with a degree or a major in history? I love that you had this very, I'm going to use air quotes here. Non traditional sort of experience with history majors. So I was wondering if you had any more kind of advice or insight of what else students can do with a history major that may not be being a teacher or a second kind of common outcome which is going to law school. I was wondering if you had any more insight about that. Yeah. This is a question that I come up with all the time as well. It's also something that people will say Well, but I don't want to like work in a museum. And I think the name of our program can be a little bit misleading that it's Museum Studies Program, but I work with all types of cultural institutions and the entire GLAM sector as you will, which is galleries, libraries, arts and museums. I think I may have I may need to give you the right one. I maybe mis-remembering off the top my head. But there's so much out there. And I think there's also aspects of the fields that you won't know about until you're there. Then you're like, Oh, I could do that. So there's, there is the teaching model. If people want to go into teaching, if that's where your heart lies, there, there is the sort of polys I route right into law or politics, things like that Is being, and I lump college professor into teaching as well because I think people I know for my background it was like You can either be a high-school teacher or you could be a college professor. And that was what you did. There's public history, which is, which is different. So that's teaching history to the public and there's different versions of that. So you could go on and work in radio and host a radio show or a podcast that's about the history of a location. I think of. I don't know what their background is, but an MPR in the Baltimore Station, There's a really cool thing called and he pulled out of the blocks, which is they go every every episode is like block-by-block through Baltimore and they tell the history of that block. That's public history. I don't know the background of the people doing it though, but that's something you can do if you know how to do history research. You can host a podcast. You can do all these sorts of things. That's really cool. You can go into. I have a friend of mine, went to her undergrad was in film. She was a film editor and stuff. And then when we went through the same historic preservation program, she works at historic site and she part of her job is helping people come and film at their historic site. And so there's lots of different things you can do with history. And if you know how to do historic research, it can really lend itself to helping. You can go into museums. So you can work in a museum, you can educate in a historic site. You can work at something like Humanities Council. So the National Endowment of the Humanities, or a National Endowment of Arts, is, this, is a national endowment, which is a national giant pot of money, if you will. And that is doled out to historic sites, museums, cultural institutions of all kinds. And the humanities council's, there's one for each state. And they help give that money out and they help support programming that's related to humanities around to their state. And so that's something you can do with a history degree that people don't normally know about and there's tons I could go for hours and hours and hours about like Here's another job and here's another job and here's another job. It's really, I always tell my students, try and match what you like about history and something you love to do, like outside of it and see if there's a match there. So if you're really into developing, you love podcasts and you want to look into that. You can match that with history if you're really into teaching, but you don't want to teach in a classroom. There's ways to do that. If you love to create things like Lucas was talking about design. I'm always trying to get more of my students into the marketing and design part of history because cultural institutions need it. But like if you, if you like that, there's so many different things. So think about the things you'd like to do for fun. Are you part of a group on campus that is like student government? Do you like to are you part of the I don't know what it's called, but the group that brings like shows to campus, there's, there's a way you could, there's in history. You can do that at museums. You can be a, basically an entertainment coordinator for a museum. And so there's all sorts of things that you can do. And by having a background in history, it gives you the baseline for being able to kind of communicate with people. But there's 9 million things you can do in the field. It's just a matter of how creative you are going to be about it. So, uh, you mentioned like learning how to do historical research is so important to think about what the program teaches you to do and not just what the program is. No, like if you know how to do and historical research, like you can get a job in any sector of the government, any aquariums anywhere that's not just historical, but somewhere that benefits from knowing the deep history. Something to research. Yeah. Yeah. I have friends that have spanned out from history programs to doing like wild things. And some of it is that they were like, Oh, I did history and I never want to touch it ever again. And so that's why they're doing these like sort of crazy things. But then I talked to them on a, and there is still a foundation there. Right. They had the rigorous writing, things that they had to do. Somebody that went on to editing. Which you would think you would go to. You would be an English major to go on to be an editor? Well, history can be just as rigorous as like an English program. Sometimes more so depending upon what? Because there's a very specific style of writing. And so yeah, you could go on and be an editor at a location. But that's with anything right? Like my partner is a mathematician and on the side does editing for math textbooks because he likes editing. So there's different things out there that we don't think about, that there's products being made in these fields that they need people that have expertise in these things. So I hope for people who are listening, if you are in the Delaware area and I don't know what the openness looks like right now, but there is the DuPont Estate called when tutored that as Lake in institution and that is nightly an understatement. It is its own institution. It so if you're interested in anything that you may have heard me talk about, I really hope that you will take the time to see what went teacher has available and see the work that they do. Because it is, at least when things were open, it was very robust programming. And there is a lot of potential there. I would also suggest not just went attire which has one of the largest in the state, but also There's tons of institutions throughout the state. And so there's smaller like historical societies, like the New Castle Historical Society that does programming and has actually been doing programming throughout the pandemic. They've been doing these really cool like scavenger hunts around the town and things like that. There's, if you want to go down towards, we're hope with the hope of art league is like an art gallery slash historic site. That's really, really cool. Louis historical says others like tons of them and so definitely check out, went into her but also just check out sort of lots of different opportunities around the state. And you can see such a variety. There's natural history museums, art museums, historic sites. There's the big fancy when at her places. And then there's the little tiny New York Historical Society right next to campus. And they sort of are a wide range. And we actually at museum studies, we do try and teach our classes. One class in particular when we're able to run it is field trip base. And we take students to these types of sites like haggling and when it's her. But we also take them to smaller sites so they get to get out and see what Delaware has to offer Taiwan. How much did they pay you to plug them? Funny that you speak of Luke is because I actually do have a question for you now. You kind of alluded to doing freelancing. I first wanted to ask, is that something that you still do on occasion? So it on a special location? I used to like when I first started at Udi. I'll be honest, I was still like fresh into the industry and I really wanted more creative fulfillment. And so I freelanced rigorously. I did illustrations for anyone on Instagram that message me and needed an illustration. Friends and family members who needed invitations to their weddings and things like that. Now that I'm like four years into an established career, I already feel enough fulfillment and what I do to the point where now the only things I take on as commissions are something that's going to help my portfolio and my resume. So right now I'm spearheading the design for a virtual conference, which I know is going to be your, a large-scale project, design a website for it, and all the social media marketing and stuff. So especially early in your career, if you're not in a place where you necessarily know if you want to be for the next few years that you're working, there is no harm in seeking some side work that you will, even if you end up not liking it. It's sort of the same safety net if an internship is temporary and there's no commitment to it if you end up not liking it after the time that it's done. So I definitely recommend any, I mean, just about any field you can find some sort of contracted freelance work or something online where people need to pay you to get a quick job done. It's funny that you had mentioned that because I had a student appointment right before the podcast recording started. And this student had mentioned being more interested in freelancing than doing a corporate job. And so she's like, I don't know why I have to be in college if I want a freelance as like well, let's talk about that a little bit. Could you just going to briefly talk about what the process is in terms of freelancing. Is it something pretty complex or is it again, kind of networking and a little bit of advertising? Well, I don't want to be for a general experience because I'm sure there are I know people from my program that are solely, I guess it started as freelancers and now aren't established self-run business, I would say, but they came through that through their own personal freelancing. And it definitely takes a special kind of person to establish themselves as a freelancer because they have to be committed to wanting. Unpredictable work, I guess. Because when you're first out and you can't be too picky about what jobs you take. You know, you just sort of have to say yes to everything. Whether it's because it's going to make you money that you need or because it's going to give you experience starting out. You just have to say yes to everything that you can mentally take on. Me personally, I was always doing it as a side gig, so I didn't charge too much. I don't know too much about finance. I would say if you plan on being a freelancer, take some specific marketing or entrepreneurial classes because you're going to be responsible for a lot more than you think. I just hit everything through PayPal. I had no contracts for the first couple of years. And it was all just in good faith that the client was going to pay me and that I was going to produce work good enough for them. And I didn't charge too much because it was just a sort of creative fulfillment. If you plan on doing it professionally, Like I said, look into what you're going to be responsible for. You have to make sure you keep invoices and contracts with people so that you keep yourself accountable. You know, it's not all just them versus you, it's you versus them to you have to set yourself to a certain timeline or a certain amount deliverables. Just sort of setting expectations between both the client and herself. Regardless of what sort of project you're doing, make sure you measure it. Develop a scope in terms of how much you need to spend on it, what you want them to spend on it, how much time each of you spend on it, who's doing what? Even now in my full-time job, every meeting we go into for our new project, it's so important to leave that meeting knowing exactly who's doing why. Because you, when you're freelancing, it's nothing worse than having a million questions for someone, whether it's the class you are you asking them? So just understand as you get more and more experience what questions you have to ask for agreeing to anything. So if you plan on freelancing or running your own business, networking is obviously very important, but so is understanding the scope of each project. I'd say meet with somebody that is freelancing as well or consulting. I know that's something that people are like, Oh, I can just do it and started. I've had students come out of the program and the like, I'm just going to consult and that's fine. But meet with somebody who's already Consulting. I am that and give you some advice on, you know, the the first year like mistakes and things like that I think is really helpful. And usually people that are freelancing, consulting are very happy to talk to somebody to be like, don't do what I think, no. No. This them. Yes, some of the best people that we met in study abroad and some of the best UT alumni that have come talk to us are people who are working for themselves or freelancing permanently because it's part of their nature to be a people, person and to network and they don't often get to talk with colleagues the way that we all do. So for them to have a teaching moment is usually more than happy to give that to you. So don't be afraid to reach out to other freelancers. Yeah, it goes back to people feeling good about sharing their wisdom. Exactly. Yeah. I'll say, I like that. Maggie said, people want to say like, learn from my mistakes. Don't do what I did. And we often look for people who are like successful and find out like, well, what is it that you did that made you so successful? But I'm like, more people fail than succeed. And it's so important to know why they failed rather than why someone succeeded. Because why someone succeeded could have been very circumstantial based a lot on lock, based on things that have nothing to do with you. But why somebody fails is usually more applicable. And you can learn from people's failures as well. And you don't have to make those same mistakes. As a final question for everybody. I think it's important for students to know that their identity doesn't have to just be their major or just be their job. I think because we live in this capitalist society of where we are very much tied to our work. A lot of times we just kind of hinge who we are based on the work that we do and nothing else. So I was hoping all of you could just kind of briefly talk about things that you do outside of your job that are so important to you that you strongly identify with and that you enjoy. I can I can go first. I was like, Oh, it was hard for me for awhile because like as like a museum professional, you just our museum professional linear. There's this expectation that you work 9 million hours and you just do it for the love. You don't do it for the money. Which is like a whole another side issue in the field and stuff like that. But yeah, I've found that I really have enjoyed doing like crafty things like just getting back into historic costuming. So making clothes based on historic. Versions of those clothes or I've been like getting into a lot of like things that I was taught by my grandma, like cross stitching and an embroider and all these sort of stuff. But then doing them in like a modern sort of way. They say things that my grandmother would never cross stitch into a pillow kind of things and stuff like that. So trying to reconnect to a person that I was before I made a career decision. And those sort of crafts that I did with somebody who has passed away and I did love. And so doing those sorts of things have been kinda nice to, to get away from the lake. My job as my identity and remember things that I've done before I had a job. I'll go next. Before I do, I just say it is so important to look for a job or you feel like you will have free time to have an identity outside of that job. There are plenty of careers like directors of certain organizations and even people, a lot of people in marketing, advertising. But they're just like on all the time. And so definitely ask that in an interview is what the culture is like and what the sort of typical workload or were Workday is like. If I tell you it goes until APM flag, you want your you want your evenings. Trust me. I've been enjoying a quieter time like a lot like Meg noticed, something you could do in solitude. And that is a creative but like more of a low pressure on your mind because like in most feels like you're talking to other people just all day, like eight hours a day or consuming and new information for so long that had to find something that just feels really familiar to you. So i've I've been doing a lot of cooking. I have a dog that I'm in love with and we're going to lay three walks a day. And I don't do anything that exciting. And I'm not ashamed to say that. Like I'll just listen to new music on our walks or I'll watch new TV show. Just anything that helps me decompress. And like I try to not feel guilty about not being productive at all the time. I think that a lot of people feel like they should be doing something where they're always learning something new. We're always trying something new and it's okay to not. And so I've been enjoying and not learning anything new when I don't have to, if that makes sense now, Yes. Can I ask you something? Do you do design work or graphic design work for fine. Not too much actually. Like I used to. Like the illustration work I did a lot of the time. I would do it for fine. If it weren't a commission is just sort of an illustrative tribute to a celebrity I like, or a drag queen that I really like or redesigning an album of one of my favorite musicians. But now that I've been working in the field for so long, I just sort of already have a lot of techniques under my belt that I don't feel the need to creatively learn how to do things or test myself. I feel like maybe I'll just say really trying to prove to myself that I can do all these different things. And now that I'm at a place where I feel like I don't have to prove it anymore is where I'm like, okay, I can find it entertainment and satisfaction in somebody that's not teaching me something new. They can identify with that because I've been the similar way with, with stuff where I've started different projects where I'm like, Ooh, I'm going to learn how to do this craft or whatever. And then I get to a point I'm like, why am I fighting this? I'm not good at it. This is not it's not fun anymore. I like you anyway. Like I thought it would be really fun and I'm really stressed about it. And so I'm like, why am I fighting to make this hobby a thing like, let's just move on to a new hobby. It's fine. No one's judging me. I think it's just yeah. That has Yeah. That's been the biggest releases. Realizing hobbies don't have to prove something to yourself like you're, you're just going to be frustrated or you're going to get a good result and not care about it in a week. So I would say, don't feel guilty about the hobbies that aren't productive. I mean, things outside of the job are supposed to be stressful leaf forms, not stress inducing forms of activity. So and that's, I mean, that's taken me a lot of time to figure out because like, even when I was in college, I had school, I was taking a full course load of classes and it was working 20 hours. I eat dairy and I was basically working 40 hours with Skip have because by my senior year I was president and so I was in charge of everything. And so it was one of those things where like, I was not ever not doing something. And so I really a lot with Lucas where it's like once it's 5PM, I've really tried to ignore the e-mails that come in afterwards and ignore the text messages, and ignore all the bark and try to just like be brain dead in some ways, just to relax and let everything kind of empty out from the day. I'm also slowly but surely getting back into reading. I used to read like 50 to 60 bucks a year when I was in middle school, high school, and even into college. And recently that's been a rediscovery of mine that I'm trying to do. Again. I need to get a library card at some point because books are expensive. And like a library card, it's not. So that's the thing that's like on my goals for 2021. I'm also big on nature, so I definitely try to go out into the woods. Whether it's the park that's down the street from me or if I'm able to travel again, go someplace. I want to get to more national parks. I hadn't really haven't done much of them. And so that's a big flaw of mine. I'm a UT alum, as I mentioned, and literally did not make it down to Cape envelope and State Park until four months ago. So there's also a lot of Delaware that I haven't experienced. I haven't done much south of the canal. So yeah, I think there's a lot of things that have to do with like just getting out of my apartment. That's going to be a lot of what's happening this year. It's also been a pandemic since I started this job. So that's also played a role in Blake my experience, I have a I have finally met about 25 to 35 percent of my colleagues in person because I have started going back into the office. So just like having those social aspects have been nice, but yeah, outside of the work environment, a lot of it's just like relaxing, not doing much reading or being outside. But when it's 25 and snowing, it's not exactly a big poll for me to go outside. During your reading season when you're reading like all of those applications, do you still I feel like reading for fun. John is shaking his head. No, I have literally been watched so much TV in the past few months because it's just like I'm still, I mean, it things because I'm still staring at a screen after reading applications for eight hours. But I'm not reading words on a screen and watching stuff. But yeah. To answer your question, saw that. Yeah. I I'm trying to push myself in the direction of being reading outside of the day, especially because it's like a physical book versus using a computer screen or a TV screen to do something or a phone screen? Screens on screens, on screens. For yeah, there's minimal motivation for about six months of the year because I'm reading application, that application or application. I always think about this one thing that I heard a long time ago or it's like like if you're flipping burgers all day, you don't want to go home and then cook dinner. And I think about that when students are considering doing something on this side and doing something else in the meantime. Like for me, for example, I do a lot of writing, but if I had to do a lot of writing for my job, there is just no way I would be doing a lot of writing when I like clock out because that would be too burned out from all the job writing. Yeah, I like to think that leg do things within your field of passion, but don't actually do your passion and your job because you'll get tired of it at some point. Find the things that are a Jeep isn't that you'll enjoy, but isn't going to take up your time and then you never wanna do it again. Passion adjacent. I like, huh? Yeah, I don't know how like politically correct or what good advice this is, but it's very common phrase to be like, find what you love and figure out a way to make money doing it. But eventually you're going to stop loving it because you're putting that pressure on herself to be profitable in everything you like to do. And that's just not a healthy relationship with things that you like, you know, shouldn't have to monetize things that you enjoy doing. Agreed. So thank you so much for sharing your journey and your insights and your eyes. I think this is all really helpful and for me information, I hope our students glean a lot from this. I'm very happy that we have a lot of different backgrounds being represented with today's interview, I hope said it will be of use to students. So thank you to make Lucas and John for joining us today. This has been another episode of choices and university studies podcast.

Choices: Episode 12 - Interview with UD Alumni & Staff

From Sylvia Lee May 20, 2021

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In this episode, we interview UD alumni and staff members Meg Hutchins, Lukas Emory, and John Cogan. They each share with us their career journeys (Meg's was a bit long, so we are posting a separate bonus episode with that), and we also discussed the importance of networking, Lukas's book, John's Geography major, Meg's insight on what you can do with a History major, freelancing, and more!

Department Name: University Studies
Appears In: University Studies

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